HN Debrief

Founding a company in Germany: €9600, 152 days and I still can't send an invoice

  • Startups
  • Regulation
  • Europe
  • Economics
  • Finance

The post is a first-person account of founding a company in Germany and running into a long chain of delays, fees, and manual steps. The founder says he spent €9,600 over 152 days and still could not send invoices because the company was not fully ready and the VAT number had not arrived. He frames the core problem as Germany demanding too much upfront capital and too much ceremony just to let a small software business operate with limited liability.

If you are incorporating in Germany, separate complaints about the system itself from mistakes in entity selection. For most small software businesses, the real blockers are VAT registration, notaries, and ongoing admin, so get tax advice on the simplest viable structure before optimizing for edge-case tax benefits.

Discussion mood

Frustrated and cynical. Even many commenters who thought the founder overcomplicated the setup still saw Germany as unusually bureaucratic, slow, and hostile to small-company formation, especially compared with neighboring countries and the US.

Key insights

  1. 01

    The setup was the real outlier

    The expensive part was not simply "starting a company in Germany". It was choosing a UG or GmbH plus KG structure that most small founders never use. That structure adds a second entity, extra filings, extra bookkeeping, and extra legal work, which makes the timeline and fees a bad proxy for what a normal software consultancy or startup would face.

    Before judging a jurisdiction, map your actual need to the simplest entity that satisfies it. If your advisor jumps straight to a multi-entity structure, ask what concrete benefit justifies the second set of books and filings.

      Attribution:
    • mplappert #1
    • mpweiher #1
    • davedx #1
  2. 02

    The real blocker was the VAT ID

    The post reads like a company-formation horror story, but the operational pain point was being unable to invoice cross-border customers before the VAT registration was sorted out. Several people said the incorporation itself was closer to weeks than months, while the VAT process is the piece that routinely stalls actual commerce.

    When planning launch timing in Germany, track VAT registration as a separate critical path. Do not assume that having the entity formed means you can bill international customers immediately.

      Attribution:
    • wongarsu #1
    • gwd #1
    • weinzierl #1
  3. 03

    UG solves capital, not bureaucracy

    Germany already has a one-euro limited-liability form, the UG, so the problem is not literally "no low-capital option exists". The catch is that UG still carries most of the same accounting and tax overhead as a GmbH, and in some markets it signals "tiny or unserious" to procurement teams. That makes it a legal workaround, not a real simplification.

    Treat the UG as a tradeoff, not a free on-ramp. It reduces upfront capital needs, but it does not remove the ongoing admin burden or the possible sales penalty with conservative B2B buyers.

      Attribution:
    • asyx #1
    • miroljub #1
    • glad_duck #1
    • blks #1
  4. 04

    Publish capital instead of mandating one threshold

    A more sensible system would let companies start with whatever capital fits the business and make that amount easy for customers and suppliers to inspect. Multiple commenters argued that a fixed 25,000 euro floor is too small to protect against serious losses and too large for many low-risk digital businesses. Public disclosure would let the market price the risk instead of forcing everyone into the same box.

    If you sell into risk-sensitive markets, expect counterparties to care about your capitalization even if the law does not. Be ready to show financial strength through published accounts, insurance, guarantees, or deposits rather than assuming the entity label will do the work.

      Attribution:
    • Zufriedenheit #1
    • notpushkin #1
    • varispeed #1
    • solatic #1
  5. 05

    German founder liability does not end at incorporation

    Limited liability in Germany is narrower in practice than many founders expect because directors face strict insolvency duties. If the company becomes unable to pay or is over-indebted, management must act quickly or risk personal liability and even criminal exposure. That means the state is not only hard on the way in. It is also unforgiving if you keep trading after trouble becomes visible.

    If you run a German company, build cash forecasting and insolvency checks into routine operations from day one. This is not a jurisdiction where you can ignore distress until the bank account actually hits zero.

      Attribution:
    • selfmodruntime #1
    • ccozan #1
    • JanSt #1
  6. 06

    Foreign incorporation rarely escapes German control

    The popular workaround of using Estonia, Delaware, or another easy jurisdiction falls apart if the company is effectively managed from Germany. Commenters repeatedly pointed to the "place of effective management" test, which can make the company taxable in Germany anyway while leaving you with compliance in two countries. The shortcut often adds bureaucracy rather than removing it.

    Do not treat foreign incorporation as a paperwork hack if founders and operations remain in Germany. Get explicit advice on tax residency and permanent establishment before opening anything abroad.

      Attribution:
    • ExpertAdvisor01 #1
    • dgellow #1
    • distances #1
  7. 07

    Minimum capital is weak creditor protection

    The thread largely rejected the idea that 25,000 euros meaningfully protects customers or creditors. In insolvency, that amount can disappear into ordinary operations or be consumed by the winding-down process long before claimants see much of it. That makes the rule feel more like a barrier to entry and a signal of seriousness than a real safety mechanism.

    Do not overread minimum capital as actual risk coverage when assessing a partner or vendor. Insurance, guarantees, payment terms, and current financials are better indicators of whether a company can absorb a failure.

      Attribution:
    • selfmodruntime #1
    • logifail #1
    • Saline9515 #1

Against the grain

  1. 01

    Capital is the price of limited liability

    A minority insisted the founder's core complaint misses the legal point. If you want to shield your personal assets, someone else is bearing the downside when the company fails. From that view, requiring paid-in capital is not arbitrary bureaucracy but the basic quid pro quo for giving founders a liability shield at all.

    If you want the strongest possible separation between personal and business risk, expect some jurisdiction to ask for capital, insurance, guarantees, or tighter insolvency rules. There is no free version of limited liability.

      Attribution:
    • rob74 #1
    • phlsa #1
    • InsideOutSanta #1
  2. 02

    Germany is painful, but this case is exaggerated

    Some experienced founders argued the post overstates what a normal incorporation looks like. They said a plain UG or a simple trade registration can be done quickly and cheaply, and that the article conflates a specialized tax-optimized structure with ordinary startup formation. Their point was not that Germany is good, but that this is a poor benchmark for the average case.

    When using stories like this to benchmark a country, check whether the founder chose a standard path or an edge-case structure. Otherwise you may overestimate the baseline difficulty and miss the actual common bottlenecks.

      Attribution:
    • asyx #1 #2
    • blablabla123 #1
  3. 03

    Insurance can replace some entity anxiety

    Several commenters pushed back on the premise that a one-person software business needs heavy corporate machinery from day one to control risk. They argued that professional liability insurance and contract terms often do more for a solo consultant than forming a complex limited-liability structure, especially when the founder is still effectively the person doing the work.

    For a solo services business, compare the cost and protection of insurance against the cost of a full company structure. The best first step may be policy coverage plus a simpler entity, not maximum legal sophistication.

      Attribution:
    • pjc50 #1
    • rapatel0 #1
    • mindjiver #1

In plain english

B2B
Business-to-business, meaning a company sells to other companies rather than to consumers.
GmbH
Gesellschaft mit beschränkter Haftung, the standard German private limited-liability company.
KG
Kommanditgesellschaft, a German limited partnership structure with at least one general partner and one limited partner.
place of effective management
A tax concept used to decide where a company is really managed and therefore where it may owe taxes.
UG
Unternehmergesellschaft, a German low-capital version of a limited-liability company that can be started with very little share capital.
VAT
Value-added tax, a consumption tax applied to goods and services in Europe and many other countries.

Reference links

EU company law reform

Cross-border tax and incorporation

Official setup guides and forms

Background references and examples